In the spirit of tomorrow’s national vigils (Light Up the Night for Equal Rights), I thought it would be a great idea to shed some light on the Rick Warren debate. Many people have added some great comments. I’ve highlighted a few here… what are your thoughts?
Kenny says:
December 19th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Now that the damage is done, I am inclined not to be in favor of pressuring Obama to remove Rick Warren from the event. I think this was horrible judgment on Obama’s part, but I don’t want to see that compounded with wish-washy people pleasing on his part (we all remember Bill Clinton’s need to please, don’t we?). I would rather see this turned into an opportunity to get lots and lots of visibility for the damage that Rick Warren’s brand of spiritual violence does to gay people. What if everyone at the inauguration who decried homophobia were to wave a black flag over their head during Rick Warren’s invocation? It would be silent, it wouldn’t be rude, and it would be highly visible in pictures that will endure for all time. Black is a color of mourning, to remember victims who have been injured or killed. Furthermore, a lot of the enduring photos from this event will be in black and white. And everyone has a black shirt or piece of cloth that they could easily bring the the inaugural ceremony.
What’s the old cliche about the Chinese symbol for “crisis” being the symbol for “danger” + the symbol for “opportunity”? There is of course danger in using this historic moment in a political manner. However, that’s a decision that Obama made, not us, and I think there is no choice but to respond.
Allan says:
December 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I have posted a diary to DailyKos calling for everyone attending the inaugural to hold aloft the rainbow flag when Warren speaks. It’s a simple, visual gesture that will be seen from the dais and most importantly, by the TV cameras. If you’re like me and not attending, but know people who are, gay or straight, ask them to do the same. I’m buying a bunch of flags to send to DC with my straight allies so they can hold them and also give some away to others at the inagurual. Here’s a link to my DKos diary: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/12/19/133415/16/178/675104
mcc says:
December 18th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
If President Elect Barack Obama DOES NOT revoke his invitation to Rick Warren, then I see only one solution for the President Elect: find an openly gay leader and ask that they make the closing speech.
Hi,
I think you should be aware that the benediction, the closing prayer that balances Warren’s, is already being given by Joseph E. Lowery, who is a civil rights leader and a gay rights advocate.
Lowery is on record both saying that you cannot be an advocate of civil rights without being an advocate of gay rights:
http://www.interstateq.com/archives/1809/
“Here he told the story of an African-American, Washington, DC-based pastor… who led his congregation down a path of division and mis-guidance, preaching and pushing for an amendment against same-sex marriage… The Reverend went on to speak on respect for all people and how that played in to Civil and Human Rights as a whole. He said that if you are one who says, “I believe in human rights for all people, except for…” then you really don’t believe in human rights or equality. ”
And on record as an advocate of same sex marriage:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/religion/post/2008/12/60178434/1
“When you talk about the law discriminating, the law granting a privilege here, and a right here and denying it there, that’s a civil rights issue. And I can’t take that away from anybody.”
This does not justify or excuse the inclusion of Warren in my opinion, I just wanted to note that your specific suggestion of a remedy should maybe be amended.
Gary Allmon says:
December 18th, 2008 at 5:12 pmI urge everyone to go to http://www.change.org and make a comment or vote for the idea to dis-invite Rick Warren from the inauguration. The southern hate mongering preachers were not invited to presidential inaugurations in the 50’s 60’s and 70’s. Why should an anti-gay hate spewer be invited to this inauguration.
paul says:
December 19th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Actually, Obama HAS included a number of gays in his cabinet. AZ Governor Napolitano and her long time partner will be moving to DC, and that is a far better display of inclusiveness than a ten minute blessing at his inauguration. On another note, I believe that we should all HANG OUT SHOES ON JANUARY 19th, MLK day, as a good riddance gesture to the outgoing nightmare George Bush. Hang your shoes on the back ofyour car, on your door at home and the office, on your flagpole, or anywhere else you can think of.
17 Responses
This morning I saw part of the Today’s Show interview with Rick Warren. I was appalled, especially at the mountain of misinformation that he continues to promulgate. Ann Curry pressed him on one issue: whether being gay was biological or not. His response is that it doesn’t matter. He equated being gay with a state, such as anger. How ridiculous! He also equated being gay with non-stop sex, yet another lie. By far the most heinous thing he said was that throughout ALL societies and ubiquitous in ALL religions is the fact that there has always been the sacred marriage of a man and woman. This is the line that most people buy without thinking about it. However, this is simply not true. Gays have existed throughout history, and specifically Native American Indians supported and acknowledged the two-spirited people, or gay people, in their tribes.
I don’t think Rick Warren is uninformed. He is very adept at repeating this right wing rhetoric. Where was Mr. Savage when we needed him? I know the Today Show has been focusing on rather sensational stories of late, but why not have the other side of this debate?
We can no longer sit by and let these lies stand.
As for Mr. Warren at the inauguration:
I’m having a deja-vu moment with President Clinton backsliding on gay issues. Will this be the case with Obama?
Posted on December 19th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
I really really like the rainbow flag at the inauguration idea!
Posted on December 19th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
I sit here struggling, trying to figure out what to write. I had so much HOPE. Yes, in him. I thought things would be different and that I would finally feel that someone was on my side, watching my back. Then I saw who he chose as the face of American faith. Stunning. With a community still aching from the disappointing loss in California only weeks ago, to select a man who promoted the discriminatory legislation is like throwing salt (and lemon and bleach and acid) on a wound. While he may have thought he owed this man a favor for hosting a debate or that this offering could bring evangelicals over to his side, he failed to recognize the consequences of this decision. Faith has been lost. Our faith in him as a leader and as a champion of civil rights. Is all HOPE lost? No. Never. But will it be found in four more weeks or four more years. Let’s wait and see. We are watching, President Obama. We are watching.
Posted on December 19th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Why not take silver beaded clutch bags–they glitter when you wave them. Give the Rickster the flashing joy of a million man (and mavens) wedding march? More festive than black; easier to blend with your inauguration outfit than rainbow. Sing Somewhere Over the Rainbow and wave the beaded bags? A couple of cocktails and most folks will join in.
We (clergy sex victims) got the pope to grovel in yankee stadium. Waving a few million crystal beads might just make Rick Warren see the light. Remind him there are dollars in those clutch purses. Keep his mind off his self-professed natural desire to hump all attractive women.
Posted on December 19th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
I think it’s funny that people are actually shocked at this choice. Did you really think that Hope & Change applied to us?? Obama and Warren agree on Gay Marriage. Obama isn’t a liberal!!
The fight is just beginning.
Posted on December 19th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
I think we should let Warren have his day.
But, not by a long shot should the LGBT forget about prop.8. The best thing to do is give the religious right the fight of their natural born life. *Remember when they had to fight off the “School Prayer,” this literally brought them to their knees. I think I would be time to bring them to their knees again. Here’s how: You know the churches value their tax-exempt status. With states going bankrupt, I’m sure the states could use some of these revenues that they enjoyed for a long time.
But anyway, since they need a wake up call that people are fed up with how they are trying to push their beliefs on everyone else. Maybe it’s time to bring them to their knees by sponsoring a bill to remove their tax-exempt status in every state that they sponsored prop 8 like bills. Yes, it may not pass, but the thing is to weaken them and get them caught up in a fight they don’t want. There’s enough supporters out there for the LGBT community that enough can raised to at least sponsor a proposition.
Posted on December 20th, 2008 at 12:04 am
Let me tell you what I find myself more rightened by than an Obama administration that is cool toward gay rights and warm toward the anti-gay religious right. I am fightened by a gay rights movement that seems to care more about form than substance. I am frightened by a gay community that, in the face of a backyard insult, a social snub, seeks to deny to others the very civil rights that we are fighting for. I am frightened by a gay community that sees heritics in my family’s history of love and SILENCE toward gays, forcing me again into the closet to defend my family’s honor.
Freedom of religion–to hold in your heart and practice in your community the undeniable truth that GAY MARRIAGE is an act of GOD, free of persecution. Freedom of speech–to proclaim to the masses the love and hate, pain and hope, rage and serenity of a beating heart. Freedom of association–to search for answers and make bread with others as one’s single imperfect judgment sees fit, with no interference from the government. These are our most important freedoms. And I see the gay community taking a look at Obama’s invitation to Rick Warren and making a decision to attack these freedoms. Rick Warren’s religion must never see the light of day. Rick Warren and the churches must be sanctioned for the things they have said. Barack Obama must be punished so hard, he will never associate with a Rick Warren again.
It is actually not a difficult issue for me–I simply will not associate with a movement that is against our civil rights and will enjoy the rest of my Thanksgivings and Christmases with my family of divorcees, assaulters, cowards, and silent bigots. Join the Impact, please don’t let that happen.
Posted on December 20th, 2008 at 10:27 am
I’m not attacking the man’s freedom to say what he wants or believe what he wants. I do, however, think he was a terrible choice, and days later, I’m still angry. You reach a point, in your attempts to practice tolerance, that you simply can’t include being tolerant of other people’s intolerance. I draw the line at how openly bigoted Rick Warren is. He can say what he wants, but some of what he has said (he has also compared abortion to the holocaust, which is offensive to, well, pretty much everyone) ought to preclude him from receiving such an honor from our President Elect. Huge difference, between letting scum like this speak and their own churches and handing them credibility by selecting them to deliver the invocation at such a historical event. It’s like Rachel Maddow said on her MSNBC show last night (I have to paraphrase): When human rights groups look back on this, they are going to wonder, “…but what’s that guy who compared homosexual relationships to child abuse doing there?”
I just found out I will not be able to attend a LUTN event due to a family emergency, but best wishes to all who attend.
Posted on December 20th, 2008 at 10:57 am
I am gay and have been a gay activist for 30 years and I say BRAVO, Barack Obama! Joe Solmonese of The Human Rights Campaign does not speak for all LGBT people. It’s time for a new approach and it’s about time that we had a president who is not an ideologue and can go beyond embracing only those based on “loyalty” or agreement on all issues. Isn’t that what Reagan and Bush did? In picking Rick Warren to simply give a prayer based on common ground, Obama makes a statement that as people we are much more alike than we are different. He is not agreeing with Warren’s political positions, nor should we fear he does. This sets the stage for Obama to challenge existing homophobic government policies with congress on a similar basis. It greatly increases his credibility in arguing for LGBT equal rights and the elimination of The Defense of Marriage Act, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, states rights for LGBT marriage, and ultimately for national Civil Unions. Obama has indeed changed politics as usual already. This is not the “your with me or your against me” victim-based, “it’s my turn” “punish your opponents” politics of the Bushes or the Clinton’s for that matter. It’s a brilliant move of inclusion, which we can all build on to advocate for LGBT rights. If Barack Obama can include Warren, Barack Obama will include us, and Warren and his followers must remember that when the time comes. Plus, isn’t it inclusion that we as LGBT people have been asking for all along? The bottom line is that Obama is already leading in a way that is new and challenging and we are not used to it yet. He is rejecting the failed approach of adversarial politics that has lead to the bitter cynicism of Solmonese and others, and is creating a a new approach of standing on common ground with your adversaries to begin the process of healing. That is a very good approach for America and an even better approach for finally achieving our LGBT rights.
Posted on December 20th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Dr.Bob101 you are very mistaken if you believe that the gay community will not punish its opponents. It’s very much part of your thinking “your with me or your against me”. The gay community always has operated from this position. I further believe that Barak Obama will not repeal DOMA. The votes in congress were very clear. Many democrates voted in favor of it and Bill Clinton signed it. The victim mentality has always been your weak link in the chain. You always claimed being a victim while forcing others to support your position. Yes in Massachusets gay marriage is taught in shcool and parents do not have any voice in their childrens education. A Methodist church was sued by gays because they wouldn’t allow gays to perform marriage ceremonies on church property. Your goal is to force people to believe in something they do not want to. It’s not just a matter of civil rights. There is an agenda here that goes way beyond getting a marriage license. That is what people are becoming aware of.
Posted on December 21st, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Why is everyone so bent out of shape over Rick Warren? Billy Graham did the invocation at Bill Clintons inaugaration. He wasn’t pro gay and nobody minded. Just because Rick Warren is there doesn’t mean that Obama is listening to him. I saw the Today show as well and agiain on the NBC web-site. He didn’t talk a lot about Prop 8 or gay marriage. Obama may not listen to him but others might. So stop worrying.
Posted on December 22nd, 2008 at 8:43 am
Just in reponse to the Rick Warren choice. It is never acceptable to give a bigot the limelight.
In the blogs it was noted that Obama is all for Gay rights. CNN stated that in the Rick Warren Choice by Obama that in the electiion he clearly exhibited that he is a political animal. Let us not forget that Obama refused to stand with Newsom for a picture when Newsom was in the midst of the gay marriages at city hall. He was afraid of what that may protray him as in politics And Newsom was hosting a fund raiser for Obama.
Obama is a political animal — Newsom is a man of principle who acts on principle. He is my hero. Obama is some of the same old stuff, saying we support you but being afraid to really stand up for it.
Posted on December 22nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
I would like to suggest that those attending the inauguration protest by turning their backs on Rick Warren during his moment of hate and those watching mute their televisions.
Posted on December 22nd, 2008 at 12:01 pm
OBAMA WOULD DO ANYTHING TO BE PRESIDENT. OBAMA SHOWED HIS TRUE COLORS (PARDON THE PUN ) WHEN HE OVERLOOKED HILARY AS VP PRES. HE NOW HAS RICK WARREN ON HIS SIDE.. –PLEASE DO NOT BE FOOLED INTO BELIEVING HE WILL HELP GLBT.
OBAMA HAS MADE HIS CHOICES CLEAR. PEOPLE LIKE RICK WARREN ARE WHAT MOST PEOPLE WOULD CALL FALSE GODS.
Posted on December 22nd, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Are there any planned protests during inauguration week in DC? There ought to be. I plan on being in DC then and want to join in.
Posted on December 22nd, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Hi All,
While moderating I accidentally hit “spam” on a comment that was far from it. I had just deleted about 10 spam comments and wasn’t thinking. In any event, I can’t approve the comment once it’s been marked spam, so I’m copying and pasting it here:
Jay Wrote:
I hope there is a massive protest in DC with much waving of rainbow flags and wearing of protest shirts, etc. I am outraged that Obama has not just told us to stay at the back of the bus but has thrown us under his bus of political expediency. I supported Dennis Kucinich in the primary. Kucinich has supported marriage equality for a very long time.
Obama’s vociferous opposition to marriage equality is in lock-step with ilk like Rick Warren and together their views helped pass the anti-marriage equality Prop 8. I am starting to suspect that Obama is a closet homophobe. We need to stop excusing his abuse of our rights and in the spirit of Harvey Milk we need to stand up to him and tell him we are mad as hell and we are not going to take it any more.
Posted on December 23rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
I think you are thinking like sukrat, but I think you should cover the other side of the topic in the post too…
Posted on January 19th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
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