The past three days have seemed like an eternity. So much has happened, and I realized that in all this, we never gave you any background about JoinTheImpact. On Friday morning, November 7th, I (Amy) received an email from a good friend, Willow Witte (our Cleveland protest coordinator). Willow like many of us, was fired up about Proposition 8 and seeking a way to mobilize. She had put up a post on her blog with an email template for people to write their local LGBTQ organization and ask for help planning something – anything. I responded to Willow’s email saying that we shouldn’t wait, we need to mobilize now and we need to on a national level, at the exact same moment, throughout the country. We have allowed our opponents to take our issues and make them local. Once they have divided us, they take their national movement and attack our smaller state-wide or even city-wide one. JoinTheImpact was forged as a way to give our community a national stage. We all must work towards equality in our state, but we need to know that every member of our community, across the nation cares about what happens in every state. California, Arkansas, Florida, and Arizona should not stand alone in this fight. We must all stand with them and for each other. These ideals are what spawned JoinTheImpact. That is who we were on November 7th at 9am PST.
Now, 4 days later, we are more than anyone could have imagined. Look in the mirror. We are you. We are your family. We are your loved ones and your allies. JoinTheImpact has not just gone national, it has gone international! Here’s the timetable so far:
1. November 7th – Launch
2. 5 Hours post launch – First 10,000 visitors
3. Midnight on November 7th – 20 cities organizing
4. November 8th (Afternoon) – Thanks to the help of organizers, we made CNN’s iReport.
5. November 8th (Evening) – Our site hit 35K visitors
6. November 9th (Morning) – 30 cities organizing
7. November 9th (Afternoon) – We got the attention of ParezHilton.com
8. November 9th (Evening) – The tipping point – Traffic jumped to 50K visitors/hour. With the help of Hostdango.com, we immediately switched to a new web server (Generously donated by Hostdango!)
9. November 10th 8am PST – Our initiative goes international! Now there are protests being planned around the world for the exact same minute on November 15th!
10. November 10th 11am PST – WetPaint.com enters the mix of local Seattle based companies donating time and services. Thanks to WetPaint, we now have an amazing Wiki to upload contact information and protest locations for every single city! They created a social site just for us: http://jointheimpact.wetpaint.com.
11. November 10th 11pm PST – 49 states have local organizers in over 80 cities!!!
12. November 11th – 1am PST – We reached 1million visitors!!
13. November 11th 8am PST – Hostdango shows even more generosity by upgrading us to an amazingly robust dedicated server to ensure that we can handle the traffic!
Simply put, JoinTheImpact is no longer two people emailing back and forth on a Friday morning. JoinTheImpact has become a national community. It has become a grassroots movement of such immense proportions! You are the impact!
In just 4 days, we have joined together for a protest that will make history, if we handle it with respect. We need to know that this is step one of many. JoinTheImpact will be with you every step of the way fighting the good fight until every one of us has achieved full equality, but this fight will not end with one protest. We need to keep the momentum moving.
As our movement grows to such immense levels, you can imagine that we are getting some angry emails. This means that you will most likely find people at your protests that aren’t there to help; they are instead there to have their own protest. Don’t let something like this get you down. This is an opportunity just waiting for you! I keep talking about how we can’t stop the “conversation” and how this protest is a way to keep it going. In a conversation, there is always the possibility of conflicting opinions. As such, here is what I ask of you:
We need to stay strong in the face of ignorance and remain respectful to those that disagree with us, even when they choose not to respect us. No one can win a fight with anger at the wheel. We must understand that our opponents are afraid of change. They are afraid of what will happen if the word marriage encompasses our community as well. Rather than give them more reasons to fear, we must carry on the conversation with respect. Many of us are angry, and I know how hard it is to move past anger, but if we let the anger move us, we lose control of the conversation. Anger only achieves more anger – in the end, someone is always on the defense, and when trying to achieve universal change, we will always meet opposition when we play the game of offense and defense. Among many rights, we are demanding the 10,000 + rights that come along with marriage. What’s important about this is that marriage is an institution of responsibility. Even though so many committed LGBTQ couples have proven that they take this responsibility very seriously, our opponents don’t agree. This is because of respect. Beyond our community, our nation needs to reexamine our expectations of respect. Respect is something earned, it is not a privilege, it is not a right, and it is not something anyone is obligated to provide to anyone else. Just like anger only achieves more anger, respect is only gained when one person takes the first step to put it into the equation. Respect and responsibility go hand in hand for many, and our opponents grasp to whatever they can to believe that we are not deserving of either. So let us take away anything that would allow them to believe this. This protest is to keep the conversation going, but let’s keep it going with respect. Rather than meet our opponents with anger, we must meet them with open ears. If we expect our opponents to listen to us, we need to listen to them. I know from experience that this doesn’t sway everyone, but it allows them to really hear another side of the story. Maybe it won’t change their mind today, maybe not tomorrow, but all you need to do is plant the seed. If you respect them, then they will have to respect you back and that seed will grow. If they still choose not to respect you back, then it’s not your loss, it is theirs. Let’s not be victims. Victims are angry. Victims are reactionary. Victims will always have an excuse to hide behind. If this site has proven only one thing it’s this: We are all victorious! We are all strong! We are all compassionate and respectful of one another! If we allow anger to determine our movements, then we become victims and we are not going to be victims anymore! We are going to take the wheel and we are going to show the world just how strong, ambitious, and adamant we can be! If we allow respect, intelligent debate, and education to rule our movements, then we are the virtuous ones and our opponents will have to listen. I’ve said it many times on this blog and I’ll say it again: We must infiltrate (push the conversation, drive the conversation, get out and protest) in order to educate (converse with opponents, seek out those who aren’t likeminded and engage in debate) and only then, can we end hate!
Infiltrate. Educate. End Hate.
41 Responses
Why isn’t Orange County on the locations?
I know there will be protest at Irvine City Hall on Sat at 10:30am. I also know of another protest at South Coast Plaza at 12noon. Then another one at Mormon Temple in Newport Beach on Sun at 10am.
Please update your site.
Posted on November 11th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I just hope that we take this day of protest and turn it into a truly nationwide initiative for total equality under federal law for all Americans.
This state by state, piecemeal fight is not serving our community, as shown on November 4, 2008 when the total number of states with a gay marriage ban written into their constitutions rose to 29.
Now is the time to go for full federal coverage for employment, housing, benefits, hate crimes, marriage and more.
It IS time. Equality can’t wait.
Posted on November 12th, 2008 at 12:28 am
Would you like to suggest to people who live in places where they don’t feel comfortable/safe rallying in public that they still get together at the appointed hour in private homes to participate? They could brunch, lunch, BBQ, or just chat, but still feel like they are a part of this movement.
It would be so wonderful if we could get some live coverage of the event on the internet so those people could watch some of the rally action…
Posted on November 12th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Frankly, this protest should be directed primarily at our own state constitution. Texas passed a similar provision in 2005, remember? We heard barely a whimper of outrage, let alone any protests.
Posted on November 12th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
In a democracy, the will of society’s citizens is measured by the results of an election. In the USA, there is also a check and balance system to ensure due process under the constitution. In the case of Proposition 8, the people have made their voice known clearly, Marriage consists of a man and a woman only. Obviously, there can be further appeals, ballot propositions, legislation, etc. In the meantime, as members of a society that abides by the will of majority vote, it is time to stop acting like spoiled juveniles intent on protesting the will of the majority vote.
I have witnessed personally, anti Proposition 8 people stealing Yes on 8 Yard signs, seen people screaming obscenities at people posting “Yes on 8 signs, heard of people throwing rocks/bricks into people’s cars/homes with Yes on 8 signs, and now in order to keep our society inflamed in deviceivness, they want to institute a Million Person March. There were several “No on Prop 8 signs” in my neigborhood and no one violated their first ammedment rights by stealing the signs nor vandalized the property of the people displaying them.
Perversion is not a civil right! It never has and never will be. It is a travesty to say that gay marriage is a civil rights issue the same as freedom for slaves or the right for women to vote! Those issues are civil rights and they do not include perversion! All religions formed a coalition to support proposition 8. Are religious people misguided puppets? I think not, however this site and others support fanatical tactics to new levels of breaking the law, as noted above.
If you wish to consider yourselves members of a civilized society, then accept the will of the people. If not, and if you propose, ignore or support illegal actions to accomplish your means, then you are supporting civil unrest and you may not be so happy with that result.
In Conclussion, if you wish to lend credence to your cause, Act like responsible members of society and not fanatical martyrs such as I have seen to be the case.
Promote only responsible behavior by your supporters in promoting your view and Do it Now!
In closing, I am sure that you will want to censure and remove my comments. Just know that everyone has First Ammendment Rights, which is what makes our country great!
Posted on November 12th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Great words, and great job! Thank you!
Posted on November 12th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Perversion? What gives you a right, mr hassleback, to insult gay people like that? There is nothing perverted about who we are. We are human beings just like the next. We’re talking about freedom here. And yes gay marriage is a civil right because marriage is given out by the state, not by the church.
Yes sir, religious organizations that backed proposition 8 were misguided and delusional. They used slander against gay people, including calling us perverts, as you have done. This is nothing more than an ad hominem attack, and shows how little of an argument you have.
We’re going to protest because we feel a gross misjustice was done to a sizable portion of this country, who are citizens. We are citizens, gays and lesbians, and we deserve the same exact rights as heterosexuals.
We’re acting radically, because we were confronted with slander by the religious bigotry in this country (such as your own). Religious fanaticism bigotry must end in this country. You call us fanatics… why is it 90% of the arrests in the protests have been of PRO-PROP 8 protesters? Why is it people who hold opinions as your own, are attacking our protesters with violence?
Answer these questions, before you make delusional statements about supposed “perversions”. I’m about as much of a citizen as the next person. You, nor does the “majority” have a right to vote on my civil rights.
Posted on November 12th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
This video is a public service announcement
for the Seattle November 15 protest rally.
Get the word out!
http://vimeo.com/2227993
Posted on November 12th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Gays and lesbians have been thrust into a civil rights movement. It is a decades long tradition in our country. A majority, no matter how slim, should never have the power to deny equal rights to any minority. The hate filled religious right want us to simply lick our wounds and skulk away. I understand that their hate comes from ignorance and fear but no amount of hate or intolerance should silence us. As with minorities before us we must now be so visible that we can’t be ignored. Massachusettes has not been engulfed by the flames of Hell and no heterosexual marriages have suffered after thousands of same sex couples got married. For people who want their religious beliefs to dictate their government I suggest moving to Iran. As for me, I will fight tooth and nail for the 50% chance of happiness that marriage has brought to heterosexual couples. Maybe if they had to fight this hard for the right to marry they wouldn’t treat it with so little respect.
Posted on November 12th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Giancarlo, you have every right to be upset with Mr. Hasselback’s characterization of your lifestyle. I do however take issue with your statement that gay marriage is a right because the state gives it out. My state (and presumably yours as well) gives out nothing. Follow the money trail. States provide citizens with a license to marry in exchange for some amount of currency. Religion, not government, created the concept of marriage. States did little more than figure out a way to profit from it. Unfortunately, this distinction is the reason your logic falters.
Secondly, your description of religion as “misguided and delusional” represents an attack on the personal beliefs of the people whose minds you seek to change and illustrates a lack of acceptance no better or more tolerable than Mr. Hasslebecks. Gay marriage will never be supported by the religious community for one simple reason: the very religion which brought us marriage also strongly defines homosexuality as a sin. Before I go any further let me stress that while I do not agree with that lifestyle I support your right as an individual to choose it. I would also support measures that allow you the same priveleges granted to married couples. However, I will never support gay marriage. Why? I will not support any measure that seeks to change an icon of my religious beliefs and bend it to your will. Does this make me a religious fanatical bigot? No, but this is one of those issues on which common ground does not exist. You quit trying to force your lifestyle on my religion and I won’t try to force my religion on your lifestyle.
Posted on November 12th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Hello Jointheimpact,
My bestfriend and I have been spreading word of this protest everyday since Sunday, by blasting our myspace bulletins as well as texting/calling friends. We’ve gathered around 15+ or more so people to join us this Saturday at San Jose City Hall. We felt like this wasn’t enough, luckily we’re close companions of the owner of http://www.downelink.com, a gay/les/bi social networking site (i.e. myspace) a 600,000+ growing based membership. We passed the word of the protest on to them and they’ve put up a banner on their homepage. They are another tank to our armies and must be at the fore-front of this fight. I just wanted to thank you for creating this site and organizing this rally. This is going to be HUGE.. and a severe impact in our struggle for equality.
Sincerely,
Reah G.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 12:57 am
CJC,
One of the important aspects of JoinTheImpact is that we are trying to encourage healthy and respectful debate. I thank you for trying to remain respectful in your comments and do hope that this debate can continue on that level. Because JoinTheImpact.com does not stand for pointing fingers, bigotry, or hate speech, we try to moderate those comments and keep our site focused on the positive. I do hope that this conversation continues without us having to moderate. I would like to put in my response, if you are open to hearing it.
I agree with you that religion created marriage. The laws associated with marriage and the 10,000+ rights that someone receives with their wedding license, is something that the government provides to help solidify the institution of marriage. Traditional wedding vows include “to have and to hold in sickness and in health.” This is a vow that anyone should make to the person they are promising to spend the rest of their life with. Unfortunately for the LGBTQ community, we are not provided with the legal protections to live up to such an important vow. In many states, we cannot visit our partner in the hospital and hold them in sickness. I do hope you get a chance to read tonight’s post which will be up soon as it speaks to this. It is my opinion that the government should provide the rights that come along with marriage to any couple engaging in a consensual life-long commitment. This ensures that all families are protected under the law. I believe that every religion places different expectations on marriage and you have a right to your beliefs and your definition of marriage. We have a right to the 10,000+ legal protections that are available to married couples because our government should protect our families equally under the law. We should let your religion define your commitment and other people’s religions define their commitments. Honestly if our opponents want to save marriage as a religious institution, then they should also be outraged at any heterosexual couple that gets married at a courthouse or in a way that doesn’t include scripture. We all know that this sounds like nonsense, but in all seriousness, if people are protecting marriage as a religious institution, then every single Vegas wedding chapel should be on the list of things to stop as well. It’s weird how the argument of protecting the religious institution of marriage works when it comes to gay couples, but not when it comes to heterosexual couples who get married without a religious ceremony. This is just a point of irony that I am noting, please know that my goal is not to bend your religious beliefs to my will. My beliefs are different than yours, for instance, I view the Bible in historical context and do not see homosexuality as a sin. I hope we can agree to disagree. Your beliefs are sacred to you and mine to me. My relationship with my partner is also sacred, we made a promise to each other and we deserve the legal protections to keep that promise. From what I can tell, you understand this. Your faith is your own, and we are entitled to our own. We are also entitled to label our unions as we view them under our religious institutions and for many, that is the word marriage as well, but I do not believe that the government is entitled to define marriage period. Religions should handle marriage, the government should handle the rights.
Finally, I hope you see that we are not trying to force our lifestyle on your religion. I personally am not sure where or why our nation adopted the term “lifestyle.” A lifestyle infers choice. If at any point you wish to contact me and hear my story, you will clearly see that being a lesbian has never been a choice for me, I know I was born gay, and I am happy to answer any questions you may ever have if you wish to inquire further. Please keep up a healthy debate and I encourage everyone to conduct this with respect.
Thank you,
Amy
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 12:59 am
“Rather than meet our opponents with anger, we must meet them with open ears. ”
I agree with the sentiment.
The logo of the event seems at odds with this intent. Meeting our opponents with a sea of clenched fists isn’t likely to be perceived as a signal that we are looking to engage in open dialogue.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 1:08 am
Actually, marriage wasn’t created by the church. It is a social institution that has existed in many civilizations which accepted homosexuality, such as the Culture Moche and Chimú in Latin America. Since, in the U.S. there is separation of church and state, we cannot impose the beliefs of some religions on others. Also, not all Christian churches are against same-sex marriage, some even perform them.
Prop 8 may have been supported by the majority of Californians, but that still doesn’t mean that it isn’t unconstitutional. In 1958, 94% of Americans believed that interracial marriage shouldn’t be allowed. A majority-rule vote does not necessarily translate into a more democratic society. Minorities are protected by the constitution, which is the reason why Prop 22 was overturned.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 1:16 am
Claudia,
Please know that this is not the official logo of JoinTheImpact, it was a badge donated that many people asked to use to help get the word out about this particular event to symbolize the initial catalyst (helplessness and anger) and our rise above it – we have taken those feelings and channeled our energy towards a positive movement energizing and strengthening the community. As such, the image is one of strength and solidarity, which this event is meant to engender. We will be reveling the official JoinTheImpact logo soon, and I promise it will show that we are looking to engage in open dialogue. Thank you so much for your comment!
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 1:17 am
Claudia,
Your point on marriage is very well stated. Thank you for adding your comments and helping us continue this extremely important conversation!
Amy
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 1:20 am
Please, I’ve been trying to spread the word about this. Since Join the Impact is such a big grassroots organization now, can please start talking about how targeting churches is making us look really bad in the eyes of our opponents/future allies? It is one thing to hold a vigil outside a church. Another, to go there and insult them. We are not going to gain their empathy by calling their bigots. We are not going to stop hatred by being being angry at them. We need to be remembered, not as the movement that targeted Mormon Churches and eliminated their tax-exempt. We need to be remembered as the movement that in its quest for tolerance, was tolerant even with its oponents. If we want compassion, we must give it first. If you want society to see you with better eyes, then don’t show them your angry side. I know it’s hard because the consequences of discrimination are very painful. But we need to stop insulting others and being there for them. Can you imagine being raised to believe that something is a sin and then beginning to question whether your beliefs are right or not? It is a painful process too. Let’s be more understanding. Let’s protest so that the legal system hears our voices. But to those who voted for Prop 8, let’s show them that they were wrong in doing so, because we are also human beings deserving of the same rights. We cannot achieve that while attacking them. Please, I ask Join the Impact to be more explicit about this issue. By now, you can probably reach the most active organizers around the country. Please, ask them to question whether in the long-run protesting at churches, targeting specific religions and people whose views are different is going to contribute to create a more accepting environment for the LGBT. After all, we are not fighting just for our rights but also for our dignity. Please, send a mass e-mail regarding this if you could or agree with me. I beg you.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 1:36 am
The crazy thing is that I was born and raised here in Vermont. We were the first state to have civil unions. I am proud to say thou my dad did a commitment service for two gay guys when I was younger.
Since CA was backed by the morman church and gave them money to fight against us.Have we thought about having the United Church Of Christ back us up? They open thier doors to anyone. They also happen to have a lot of gay and lesbain ministers working for them.
I think it is sad to see hate still around us today. I think Gay’s and lesbains are the new “Black” of today. I am black not proud to say I am from the USA. That is due to the fact that we are suppose to be created and treated = but we are not. Because we are gay.
I agree with taking a stand and speaking out for our children yet to come. I agree with fighting for our rights with out hurting anyone. I BELIEVE IN GAYS AND LESBAINS GETTING MARRIED AND HAVING FAMILYS. SO SHOULD THE REST OF AMERICANS. All we want is to be happy and to express the love we have for our partner.
Feel free to look at my website it is still under construction…..
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 2:16 am
Bob Hassleback’s comments above are typical of the fanatical religious right, and shouldn’t be taken so offensively. Using the “perversion” argument only exposes him as a VERY simple-minded man. I could only laugh at his ignorance and shake my head in disbelief. Nuff said on Bobby.
Although I voted “NO” on 8, I still accept the will of the people in the end. To try and force it any other way would be a travesty. Granted, I’m not gay, so I can’t fully understand how painful the outcome was.
However, change takes time. Civil unions still exist, and for now that might have to keep people at bay. The quick knee jerk reaction to a legitimate vote only hurts the cause, and will appear to divide the issue even more. Careful people, I support you, but careful.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 2:23 am
so, when do you storm the mosques??
DELTA TWP. – A radical gay rights group is claiming responsibility for a protest Sunday at Mount Hope Church in Delta Township.
Protesters who entered the Creyts Road church along with worshippers surprised the congregation when they stood up during the service, threw fliers at churchgoers and shouted slogans such as “It’s OK to be gay,” and “Jesus was a homo,” according to David Williams, communications director at the church. His father, Dave Williams, is the church’s longtime pastor. He was not preaching at the church Sunday.
Another group of protesters demonstrated outside the church at the same time as the indoor protest.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 2:34 am
I have to agree somewhat with Mr. Hassleback. We do live in a democracy and if the voice of the majority is not respected then democracy has no meaning or it doesn’t exist. Rights are given by a society based on the societies needs and wishes. The culture of the society cannot be thrust aside because one doesn’t like it or agree with it. It is a fact that many people in this country are religious. It doesn’t make them fringe radicals or a out of touch minority. There are a lot more of them than most gays and lesbians want to admit. They don’t have to change what they believe just because you say so. In many countries in Western Europe where there is legal gay marriage you do not see the people of religious faith having a temper tantrum. They accept that that is what the majority wants. Besides more than half the states have passed (by ballot) laws defining marriage between a man and a woman. My greatest fear is that the gay and lesbian community may succeed, in fighting for what they feel are their rights, in limiting or infringing upon the rights of the majority. This is why others like myself and Mr. Hassleback must fight against forces that will actually erode the fundemantel freedoms all of us enjoy now.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 2:34 am
Right now, the important thing is to get out on Sat.
As far as strategy is concerned, I think that putting gay rights to a vote of the citizenry is bad strategy. This is a constitutional issue and should be addressed by state legislatures. This means a multi-step plan to gaining equal rights for ourselves across the states, but my thinking is that it’s a better plan.
As evidenced by the Hassleback letter, above, there is much fear and hatred out there. As long as voters can be made more fearful, be preached to, and have their hatred enflamed, we will be fighting for our rights in a highly emotional context. Propositions invite that context into the fight for our rights.
If we take the slower road and demand that state legislators make the necessary changes to state constitutions, we can have the our rights discussed in a more deliberative context. We can support candidates that will fight for our rights in the state legislatures, & keep the heat on them with letters, e-mails and phone calls. Opponents of our rights will see that their political rivals are getting our support in terms of money, internet, and on-the-streets support & energy. Meanwhile we (and our advocacy organizations) can spend the time educating legislators, voters, the media, and our neighbors, friends, and families. Yeah, I’m all over the anger we’re feeling right now, but honestly you know what those wise old women say about honey and vinegar.
If we co-ordinate this on a state-by-state level, and put all of this energy we’ve got right now (that is: long-sustained activism and energy – c’mon, we’ve go the mojo!) behind a committed campaign to elect state legislators; as well as on a national level where activists from any state can provide time, money and energy to election of legislators in other states; we have a good chance of getting real change for our community.
I know that this is slower than the initiative/proposition path, but it is truly where these issues belong. Local races are very influence-able by local media, fat cats, influence-peddlers, emotional resistance to change. Our rights deserve better than small-minded reactions. Our rights deserve high-minded deliberation and recognition of our civil rights. My guess is that all state constitutions already have civil rights language/protections in them, we just have to get added.
If we choose this route, we really have to stay in the fight for the long haul. We can’t let a candidate that supports us just hang in the wind when they get attacked on gay rights issues by their opponents. If we do this in a systematic/sober way (along with our wonderful rowdy protests) we can create a juggernaut that moves across this country. We (and our supporters) have to show the country that coming up against our juggernaut is a sure road to electoral loss.
This Saturday, let’s let the world know that we are tired of being second class citizens because of homophobia and we’re not going to take it anymore.
After that, we have to make longer range plans. My ideas as stated are my contribution – for now.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 2:42 am
I just want to say that the No on 8 supporters are the ones causing huge amounts of trouble in California. In my small community 4 of my close friends cars that had Yes on 8 stickers were all keyed so badly they had to be repainted. My church was vandalized and over 10 of my own personal Yes on 8 signs were stolen. I think this is a little ridiculous. We have not done anything of the sort to provoke you. We are simply supporting a cause that we believe in. I do not think that is fair.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 2:47 am
I find it sad that people can no longer just agree to disagree. Are we not commanded to love one another? That means everyone. It doesn’t mean just your family or the people that are easy to love. We are also to love our enemies, and all the people in between. It means we are to love those with whom we disagree.
That said, I love all people as they are all my brothers and sisters in Christ. Do you have children? Have they ever done something that you didn’t like? Did you care less for your child once they did something you didn’t like? Of course not! God loves the gays and the lesbians just as much as he loves all of the heterosexuals.
God’s love is there for you if you choose to take it.
What God has told us through His Word though is that it is immoral for men to lay with men. So while he loves the gays and lesbians, he does not love what they are doing. They can, however, have the same grace that we have when we sin.
Where does this leave us? Trying to legislate morality. How can we do that? Should we do that? We did it when we created a law that made murder a crime.
These are just thoughts that have run through my head for years. If insurance companies would just allow everyone the equal right to name anyone they want as a beneficiary, partner, or whatever, would that solve everything? Why does it have to be a spouse? Just give everyone the right to name a person to collect benefits through one other person. That may be a very simplistic solution, but I’ll bet it would satisfy a lot of people.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 3:02 am
You are right we should not turn hate into our war cry, do not go after churches, they are only following thier believe. The States are the one who should be defending civil rights, Go atfer them. We need to start a web site listing what state ban gay right and stop supporting these states with our money, Money has alway been a big motivator. Put on this site what products these state produce, and stop buying them. Stop taking vacations there, vacation in state like Mass.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 3:53 am
Please add the AMERICAN FLAG to your website. We should unify and march under the AMERICAN FLAG. If the No on 8 Campaign in CA had presented the Rainbow Flag or used the LGBTQ identity in campaign materials, the election results here would have never been as close as they were.
We are GAY AMERICANS. Remember who we are talking to. If we are protesting access to the same institutions that African Americans, Chinese Americans, and all other Americans have access to, we should reflect our commitment to our constitution and unify our cause under the AMERICAN FLAG.
How would white Americans have felt if black Americans had marched under the Kenyan flag during the civil rights marches of the 1960′s?
Building bridges and educating under symbols we can all relate to and understand equally.
Pass it on = MARCH WITH THE AMERICAN FLAG.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 10:37 am
I know that violence is not the answer and the blame game has to stop but I also believe that dialogue isn’t enough. We have had people in various organizations for years that were supposed to be advancing our case through dialogue and financing but it has gone too slow and achieved too little.
Every year these various organizations trot out their lists of “accomplishments” stating how much time they spent lobbying for change and what laws may (or may not) be looked at over the coming years. Has that left the gay community in a better position? In some ways, maybe, but are we covered under federal hate crime law? Are we protected on the federal level against employment or housing discrimination? Can we serve our country openly in the military?
This fight, and fight it is, cannot be about marriage alone and it can not be about one state. Two other states were added to the total number of states with constitutional amendments banning gay marriage the day Proposition 8 was passed. That total now stands at 29. FORTY EIGHT states have statutes that ban gay marriage either explicitly or through creative interpretation. Full equality under federal law is still a dream.
But it is a dream worth dreaming and a dream that must be realized. Yes, we do need to open dialogue. We need to stop the cycle of blame that is crippling too many people. We also need to show that we will not be treated as a lesser group any longer. If that takes protesting, then we need to protest. If that takes having huge rallies outside of every capital in every state of this country over and over, then we need to gather together as often as it takes. If it takes standing outside a church with signs because they are preaching hate for the world to hear, then we need to stand up.
We, however, need to do this without violence and with the knowledge that generalizations can only hinder us. No one race or religion can be blamed in it’s entirety so we must stop doing that. We must not automatically assume that because a person is of a certain religion or race they must be against us, because that’s just not so. We must gather our supporters together, not divide ourselves even further.
The time has come in America for true equality to prevail. We cannot stand idly by any more.
To be heard we must first be seen.
It is time. Equality can’t wait.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 11:52 am
I found this online… Please, share it with others.
“Evan Wolfson, Executive Director, Freedom to Marry
Next Steps in California and the Country to End Discrimination in Marriage
Peaceful protest is an important and time-honored way of raising understanding and mobilizing people to action. Bayard Rustin, who organized the 1963 March on Washington, brought the method of non-violent witness and demonstration to Dr. King, giving Americans a chapter in history that inspires us all. Bayard Rustin was African American — and gay.
In pushing Prop 8 to take away a fundamental right from a targeted group, opponents of equality deliberately chose not to follow the rules for changing the constitution in such a grave and profound way. As Gov. Schwarzenegger said, joined by the African American and Latino leaders in the state legislature, the court should strike it down as an abuse of the political process. Beyond “just” gay people, beyond “just” marriage, allowing a fundamental right to be taken away and any group of people to be targeted so easily threatens all of us, and violates our system of government. If rights can be eliminated, constitutional guarantees stripped away, and individuals targeted so easily, why have courts and constitutions in the first place?
Freedom to Marry invites everyone speaking up now to focus on the actual paths for the needed legal change to undo the great wrong of Prop 8. There are only two — through the court or, if necessary, by ballot-measure. All of us committed to restoring the freedom to marry in California should move swiftly (and together) to taking the great work, energy, volunteers, allies, and inroads of the past few days and weeks, not allowing them to dissipate, and add them to the non-gay and gay people now awakened to the need for involvement. We must engage together, now, to do two things simultaneously: (1) shape a climate that empowers the court to do the right thing, striking Prop 8 down, while meanwhile (2) building the majority that, if called upon, will vote to change the law through a ballot-measure. The No on 8 campaign is over; the new affirmative campaign to move California and our country has begun. Restoring the freedom to marry and equality under the law will depend on how quickly we do the work of having the conversations, mobilizing young people and others to speak to their families and circles in every diverse community, and ratcheting up the public support (already near a majority).
Yesterday, Connecticut joined Massachusetts in marrying commited couples with equality under the law. Let’s work to bring inclusion and the freedom to marry to other states and show the reachable-but-not-yet-reached fair-minded majority of Americans, including Californians, that families are helped and no one hurt when we treat everyone equally and embrace justice and love. “
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
I agree with Sarah.
I wonder why so much attention and energy is being paid out to California’s decision to amend it’s constitution, when at least 27 other states already have similar amendments- This is not a newly blossomed occurrence, rather, it’s the voice of the majority echoing what many other States have already stood up for. California is not alone in their decision. The people have already spoken for and against 8. Both sides agreed to the proceedings that would either write Prop 8 into law or shoot it down. I say, leave it be.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Religion did not create marriage. Society created marriage. The Christian church did not even perform marriages until the 800′s. Until that time it was considered a civil matter. In the OT, there is no description of a “religious marriage”. Many types of marriages are described within the scriptures, most of which are now illegal.
Within most religious theologies, The people either marry each other or God marries them. The “church” has nothing to do with it. Therefore, within the verbal agreement of my partner and before God, I am already married. Thus all benefits and responsibilities within the marital contract are conferred upon the union by the state, not the church. The church does not give us the contractual right to pursue pensions, spousal benefits or property. That is the state-citizen obligation since the state issues the contract.
The purpose of civil rights an contractual obligations as it pertains to legal citizens of this country are not determined by the majority mob rule of the people, but the concepts justice set forth in the principles of the Bill of Rights as it applies to individuals. Like it or not, we live in the United States of America.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Where to begin……
I wonder if the Pope woke up tomorrow and issued a letter that read, “Let all people, gay and straight alike, marry,” would the fight for our rights even need to be fought? If every pastor and religous leader looked out at their congregations and said “Vote No” would their flock not have listened? I find it quite scary that religion has such a hold on the masses. Religion is what brought down the Twin Towers, religion is what burned countless women at the stake as witches, religion is used to controll the masses, religion killed Galileo. I want to be free from religion. Has it not served our humanity well enough. When we begin to live for our time on earth instead of our “after life” we will take the next important step toward coming together as humans. We know right from wrong. We know not to kill, lie, cheat, steal. We should live from a place of love. Does God not stand for love.
We hear the argumnet about marriage being only a religous institution, why then do ALL people file with their state for a “marriage” liscence. We call it marriage because you call it marriage. It is a commitment to each other plain and simple.
I am an Atheist and I deserve the right to be free from religion, just as religion has the right to be freely chosen.
As far as the people speaking through this vote, would blacks have found equality through a majority vote. NO. The Federal Government stepped in. The “majority” was trumpt by the constitution of this great country. It was put in place to protect the minority.
“…All Men Created Equal…”
We as a minority are not asking for the blessings of those who still choose to discriminate, we are asking for protection from those who discriminate.
Go out every human rights supporter, gay and straight, and show this country that we will not “leave it be”
We will continue to demand what every other tax-paying American has.
Freedom to Marry
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Somehow we need to create an America where my church and your church can both exercise religious liberty; an America where my marriage and your marriage can co-exist; an America where the will of the people and the rights of minorities can be respected at the same time.
Your church and my church should both be able to exercise religious liberty. My church is the Unitarian Universalist Church. We were formed by the merger of two of the oldest home-grown American churches. My church supports marriage equality. If your chruch doesn’t, that’s okay with me, but why should the state recognize the marriages that your church performs while refusing to recognize the marriages that my church performs? Doesn’t that mean that the state is privileging your church’s beliefs over my church’s beliefs? Don’t be afraid that the state recognizing a right to marriage will mean that your church will have to change what it does. The California Supreme Court, in its May ruling in favor of marriage equality, wrote “no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same sex couples and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs” (in re Marriages, p. 117).
Your marriage and my marriage should be able to coexist. I do not want to change your marriage. I do not constitute a threat to your marriage. I respect and applaud your marriage, as long as it is a union of two equals who have joined together in love to care for and support one another. My marriage is no threat to your marriage. My marriage will not cause your marriage to dissolve. My marriage will not lead to your divorce. My marriage will not prevent others from marrying. But if you support laws that deny my right to marry, your choice directly threatens my marriage.
I do resepct the will of the people, as long as they act in good faith and cast an informed vote, with respect for our system of checks and balances and for the traditions of our democracy. I cannot believe that this was the case for all who voted for Prop. 8, however. If voters who voted “yes” believed that failing to pass Prop. 8 would mean that schoolchildren would be indoctrinated to support same-sex marriage against the wishes of their parents, they cast an uninformed vote. If voters who votes “yes” believed that failing to pass Prop. 8 would mean that churches would lose their tax-exempt status if they were critical of marriage equality or if they refused to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies, they cast an uniformed vote. If voters couldn’t respect the decision of the State Supreme Court, they showed a lack of regard for this branch of our government. If voters reflected on the traditions of our democracy, they would realize that subjecting fundamental rights to a popular vote goes against the foundations of our democracy, which was designed to protect minority rights from majority oppression.
So, in order to respect the will of the people and the rights of all, I propose that we repeal Prop. 8, using language that makes it clear that there are protections for those who seem to perceive some sort of threat from the state’s recognition of marriage equality. These protections already exist in state law and in the State Supreme Court’s marriage decision, but if we put them in the text of our repeal, voters will be fully and accurately informed. A new proposition might read something like this: “Title: Restores right of same-sex couples to marry. Protects parental rights and religious liberty. Text: Proposition 8, which eliminated the right of same-sex couples to marry, is hereby repealed. This action shall not be construed as mandating any teaching regarding marriage in public schools without parental consent. Furthermore, no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs.”
I hope and pray that our marches are successful in setting us on the path toward repealing Prop. 8. Thanks for all you are doing to make the marches happen.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Amy,
First, let me thank you for posting my comments and for your level-headed response. Far too many people simply try to “shout you down” in a situation such as this.
Second, we absolutely can “agree to disagree” on things such as the strict definition of marriage. Truth be told, asking 10 people to define marriage would most likely yield 10 different answers.
I agree any couple, regardless of sex, willing to make a life-long commitment to each other should be able to enjoy the benefits and rights marriage provides. Many of the people I know share my opinion. The stumbling block is what to call this union. Perhaps I am splitting hairs, but unfortunately I’m just not able to support calling this marriage for the reasons I previously stated.
Perhaps it may help if we define exactly what it is you hope to accomplish with this struggle. Much of what I read centers on obtaining the same benefits enjoyed by heterosexual married families. If I may be so bold, I would like to suggest you concentrate more ammending civil unions to include the things you fight for. It is my belief that many more people could readily support such an action. If I’m totally off the mark here, then I am misunderstanding the message and I apologize.
Finally, I will close with an apology if my use of the term lifestyle offended anyone. I never meant to imply choice has anything to do with this. I used it strictly to denote a way of life that differs from my own. Please accept my most humble apology if any one took offense.
Posted on November 13th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
GET OUT! Now I know why there are entire neighborhoods of African Americans where Whites are not welcomed. Haven’t you all done enough. Leave these people alone. Surely you have something better to do like make more babies. You’re like car wrecks–hit and run. Your hearts are hardened like stone. If Jesus were here he would have thrown you all out. These are HIS children, HIS creation. Gay people will marry in this country. They will enjoy the same rights as you do now–and with gratitude you will never know. I have seen it happen in my lifetime and I’m a pretty old guy. So take your total insecurity somewhere else. There must certainly be something positive you could be doing like feeding the poor–visiting the forgotten–adopting an unwanted child. I’ve read lately that it is believed that more than half of children born in this country are not wanted. You’ve done enough. Your God will reward you. Trust me. My name is John McLoughlin. I am NOT anonymous.
Posted on November 14th, 2008 at 1:47 am
Regardless of where marriage came from, civil marriage as it exists now, legally, allows two people to enter into a civil contract that comes with thousands of legal rights and responsibilities. Saying that marriage came from your religion thousands of years ago, whether it did or not, does not mean that now you are the keeper of it. For your church, okay. For a pluralistic nation that prides itself on liberty and equality, no. Our country establishes a separation of church and state. You can believe marriage to be anything you like, but that belief should not come at the expense of citizens rights for all, no matter how many people agree with you. Equal access to civil marriage lets to people who are committed for life be recognized as such under the law and for that partnership to be protected by law. As long as our government is in the business of dolling out legal benefits in the form of civil marriage, it must make those rights available to all citizens.
And for the record, I do not believe in mocking people’s faith. My apologies if those of religious faith have been mocked by our movement. We are not looking to impose on your faith. We are demanding equality from our government.
Posted on November 14th, 2008 at 8:43 am
I had this question come up – For the sake of argument, would we be willing to expand the word, “gay” to include heterosexual couples? In fact, if we were to do that, it would literally destroy what being gay is all about, wouldn’t it? I mean if everyone can be “gay,” then really no one is gay. So the question is, in expanding “marriage” to include gay couples, does that not mean the same thing? If everyone can be “married,” then really no one is married. Maybe we should allow married heterosexual couples to keep “marriage” and think of another name for solemnizing gay couples’ commitments to each other; making sure there are equal legal rights under both.
Posted on November 14th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
To the misguided one, CJC, no one is asking you or your religion to recognize anyone. This isn’t about religion. You of course are wrong when it comes to this because we’re talking about the state giving out marriage licenses. Not your religion.
I’m not forcing anything on you. Stop imposing your religious beliefs into government, and stop telling the government that I cannot get a marriage license for me and my same sex partner.
And marriage is NOT a religious symbol and never has been. Stop trying to adopt it as one. It is a business and historically, a political, contract. Stop trying to make this is an issue of your religion.
Typical right wing fanatic.
Posted on November 15th, 2008 at 12:00 am
And Erik, stop trying to impose the will of the “majority” onto minorities. Putting civil rights up for vote is not democratic and never will be. It’s a gross violation of democracy.
No, it isn’t up to society or the majority what rights a minority can or cannot get. If that was the case we would still have segregation and slavery. But I guess right wing fanatics as yourself will harp on some so called “fundamental rights” of your own, wihle rejecting the rights of others.
Stop trying to make this an issue about you. If you don’t want gay marriage, don’t get one.
Posted on November 15th, 2008 at 12:03 am
Erik, you said “My greatest fear is that the gay and lesbian community may succeed, in fighting for what they feel are their rights, in limiting or infringing upon the rights of the majority. ”
I would like to quite respectfully ask for specifics regarding your statement. How exactly would gay marriage infringe on your rights? I ask simply because this type of statements keep coming up in various corners and I’ve not been able to comprehend those infringements. Please elaborate, thanks.
Chuck, the LGB community has also long stood for Transgendered rights, even though most transgendered folks do not describe themselves as gay and they are a minority within our group. The term “marriage” does not imply gender, the implication is cultural. Much like the term “vote.” These are legal rights in this country. “Separate” has rarely equated “equal” in this country, hence desegregated. I don’t believe in marriage, however, I do believe in equality, and I believe that equality isn’t an issue that can be parsed. It either is or it isn’t.
Currently, it isn’t.
Thomas, while I do find it difficult to believe that bands of marauding gays came and defiled your signs, I shall apologize on behalf of my community if that was indeed the case. As a bisexual woman, I can sympathize with people disliking you simply based on things such as yard signs, or whose hand you are holding while walking down the street. Take heart my friend, at least no one spit on you or leered and told you that they could “turn you straight.”
Posted on November 15th, 2008 at 12:51 am
I am straight, but I am disgusted with the racism and discrimination that is being displayed against gays and lesbians. It equals the history of Selma. Some of you may not remember that, some of you may not remember when women were not equal…I was there…I fought for those rights. Now I am fighting for my gay and lesbian friends and I feel the record needs to be set straight (no pun intended).
FACT: National Statistics show that same sex relationships outlast heterosexual marriages 5 to 1. How many of you know 5 heterosexual couples that have been together for 20 or 30 years?
FACT: The factions promoting Yes on Prop 8 were LYING when they said same sex marriage was being taught in 2nd grade classes in schools. The Education Code states:” Any sex education class that is to be taught to any child K-12 must have a signed note by the parent either allowing or not allowing their child to participate in said program. If the parent chooses that their child is not to participate in the program, he/she will be provided with another assignment for equal credit.”
On a personal note if you don’t want to accept the Ed Code, ask yourself a common sense question… Why on earth would a school be teaching about marriage to 2nd graders anyway??? Or better yet…Why is a school teaching about marriage period??? Do schools have so much time left over from teaching reading, math, history, science, language and PE that they can take on the roll of a parent and discuss marriage? Just where does that fit in? Sometime between snack time and sharing their teddy bear for Show & Tell?
FACT: The Mormon Church was one of the largest financial backers against Prop 8. A church that has practiced and has sects still practicing the right to have multiple wives (which is against the law) paying large sums of money against Prop 8 because they believe that’s not what marriage should be? Heaven forbid a marriage be defined as man and man or woman and woman, BUT man and WIVES well that’s just fine. Now there’s a marriage system that should be taught in the 2nd grade!!! HOW DARE those self righteous hypocrite’s?
FACT: This has been and still is a complete violation of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States! For anyone, including recent politicians, who have little or no knowledge of this document, might find this link helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States
Finally, if your local gay person isn’t interfering with your marriage then show the same respect for them and stay out of their marriage.
It is time for everyone to think about the Change that is happening around us and PAY IT FORWARD
Posted on November 15th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Some of the posters do not understand what a Democracy is. A democracy has two principals: The first principle is that all members of the society have equal access to power and the second that all members enjoy universally recognized freedoms and liberties.
By denying a certain portion of its society universilly recognized freedoms and liberties we move from the area of democracy into something looking more like tyranny. The “majority rule” is often described as a characteristic feature of democracy, but without responsible government it is possible for the rights of a minority to be abused by the “tyranny of the majority”. Gays are a minority and to deny them rights because of some religious belief is tyranny.
I propose that we also, beyond protests, look into taxation and religion. There are rules for the IRS regarding taxation and churches and also we can propose new legislation within individual states for taxation of Church property. This can be changed with amendments and should be changed. When religion gets involved with politics – especially when they seek to deny a minority of people freedoms and liberties – they loose their rights to tax exemption and I believe this should also be looked into and proposed. Google and read: A Preacher Advocates Church Taxation Isn’t it about time?
Posted on November 16th, 2008 at 11:42 am
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